Tuning a Gladi8or

Two types known, the "DA" or "Double Air" and the "PA" or "Pump Action" (a.k.a. FX Exterminator). Lots of air (500cc minimum), and the same biathlon style sidelever action as the Cutlas. Also known as Logun Gladi8tor.

Re: Tuning a Gladi8or

Postby spectrecustom on Thu Mar 04, 2010 8:11 pm

requoil wrote:I feel that 1000 fps is the acceptable maximum velocity for normal diablo shaped pellets, when traveling faster than the speed of sound the pellet can become quite unstable and therefore inaccurate. I believe this equates to about 18 ft/lb for a standard 8 grain 177 pellet?


i totally agree thats why 177s are only 18ftlb because thats all it takes to get it to 1000fps however getting a .22 to 1000 fps takes a little more puff that said i will pm you what i know on the weekend as it my take a little while to explane but remember it might look better on the chronograph but that dosent allways make it better like i said before sometimes less is more :D :D
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Re: Tuning a Gladi8or

Postby Arktokosmos on Thu Mar 04, 2010 8:48 pm

spectrecustom wrote:
requoil wrote:I feel that 1000 fps is the acceptable maximum velocity for normal diablo shaped pellets, when traveling faster than the speed of sound the pellet can become quite unstable and therefore inaccurate. I believe this equates to about 18 ft/lb for a standard 8 grain 177 pellet?


i totally agree thats why 177s are only 18ftlb because thats all it takes to get it to 1000fps however getting a .22 to 1000 fps takes a little more puff that said i will pm you what i know on the weekend as it my take a little while to explane but remember it might look better on the chronograph but that dosent allways make it better like i said before sometimes less is more :D :D


Thank you very much - both of you - for your recent postings. Indeed there is an almost "natural" barrier at the speed of sound which will make standard diabolo pellets tumbling when they get supersonic (and thus will result in greater inaccuracy). That is why my performance goal for tuning is set at just around 320 m/sec equalling 30 Joule. I would not plan to go beyond that. At factory settings (in UK that would correspond the F.A.C. version of the Gladiator?) the rifle comes in Norway with 20 ft/lbs (27 Joule) at 1000ft/s in cal. .177. That is already pretty much and indeed, I am just looking for that little bit extra to push it to 320 m/sec and the 30 Joule barrier. So I am definetly not after a 380 m/sec rifle or something like this. Remember that rifles like the Weihrauch HW100 S have 30 Joule at 320 m/sec (in the F.A.C. version in cal. .177) and I have not heard about problems regarding precision etc. with these rifles so far.

So anyone having hints / tipps / instructions on how to reach this specific perfomance gain is happily welcome to contact me. :)
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Re: Tuning a Gladi8or

Postby Arktokosmos on Thu Mar 04, 2010 9:07 pm

Maybe a stupid question - but that idea just occurred to me: What about fitting a longer barrel to the rifle? Wouldn't that give a bit more acceleration to the pellet so that the 30 Joule / 320 m / sec barrier could be reached?
Question would be if it is just as easy as that - and what barrel (brand) at what length one would have to install?
The Lothar Walther Match barrel is possibly available in a longer version than used on the Gladiator?
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Re: Tuning a Gladi8or

Postby requoil on Thu Mar 04, 2010 9:50 pm

A good question, in springers there is not much to be gained by having long barrels but in PCP barrel length is much more important in gaining power (or more shots of a given power per fill). I think it is a matter of preference for each individual or nobody would buy the Verminator in place of the Gladiator, the Gladiator having much more potential because of the longer barrel. How long you find comfortable or acceptable, only you will know, most shotguns in the UK must be over 24", which is short for a shotgun, but the users find it quite acceptable.

The gains achieved in relation to added barrel length would be greater the higher the muzzle energy aimed for, I see little reason to have a long barrel on a sub 12 pcp, except perhaps slightly better shot count. There are obvious penalties that come with longer barrels, weight, maneuverability, and the increased force applied to the breech, if the end of the barrel bangs or is pushed against objects.
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Re: Tuning a Gladi8or

Postby Arktokosmos on Thu Mar 04, 2010 11:47 pm

requoil wrote:A good question, in springers there is not much to be gained by having long barrels but in PCP barrel length is much more important in gaining power (or more shots of a given power per fill). I think it is a matter of preference for each individual or nobody would buy the Verminator in place of the Gladiator, the Gladiator having much more potential because of the longer barrel. How long you find comfortable or acceptable, only you will know, most shotguns in the UK must be over 24", which is short for a shotgun, but the users find it quite acceptable.

The gains achieved in relation to added barrel length would be greater the higher the muzzle energy aimed for, I see little reason to have a long barrel on a sub 12 pcp, except perhaps slightly better shot count. There are obvious penalties that come with longer barrels, weight, maneuverability, and the increased force applied to the breech, if the end of the barrel bangs or is pushed against objects.


Thank you very much for your reply. So you are basically saying that a longer barrel would give som benefits and could push the performance up towards the 30 Joule / 320 meters per sec barrier? Question is, how easy can one exchange a barrel on a FX Gladiator? Is there a longer version of the "Lothar Walther match grade" barrel available, currently used in the 500 mm version on the rifle? Or could one easily install one of the 600 mm barrels used for example on the Weihrauch HW 100 T on a Gladiator?
Do you see any issues with the precision of the rifle? How much performance would be gained by adding another 100 mm to the barrel (based on the FAC .177 version of the Gladiator)?
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Re: Tuning a Gladi8or

Postby spectrecustom on Fri Mar 05, 2010 12:03 am

I AGREE WITH ALL THE ABOVE DID YOU NOT SAY YOURS WAS A GLADIATOR CARBINE? IF SO HOW LONG IS YOUR BARRLE STANDARD??
ONCE PURCHASED A BARREL IS EASY TO CHANGE LIKE A FIVE MINUTE JOB :D AND I DO BELIEVE WILL GIVE YOU WHAT YOUR LOOKING FOR
HENCE I SEEM TO THINK THE GLADIATORS PUT OUT MORE POWER THAN THE VERMINATORS???????? AND AS FOR THE SPECT8TRES PHEWW MAN DONT GET ME STARTED ABOUT THOSE THINGS LOL :D

ps sorry for shouting i didnt realise. :oops:
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Re: Tuning a Gladi8or

Postby Arktokosmos on Fri Mar 05, 2010 12:16 am

spectrecustom wrote:I AGREE WITH ALL THE ABOVE DID YOU NOT SAY YOURS WAS A GLADIATOR CARBINE? IF SO HOW LONG IS YOUR BARRLE STANDARD??
ONCE PURCHASED A BARREL IS EASY TO CHANGE LIKE A FIVE MINUTE JOB :D AND I DO BELIEVE WILL GIVE YOU WHAT YOUR LOOKING FOR
HENCE I SEEM TO THINK THE GLADIATORS PUT OUT MORE POWER THAN THE VERMINATORS???????? AND AS FOR THE SPECT8TRES PHEWW MAN DONT GET ME STARTED ABOUT THOSE THINGS LOL :D

ps sorry for shouting i didnt realise. :oops:


No problem - and thank you for replying. ;)
Yes, the rifle is a FX Gladiator DA brand new in .177 (FAC version one would call it in the UK). It has the Lothar Walther > Match Grade > Choked > Free floating at a length of 500 mm.
And actually it is true: The Gladiator DA has a 500 mm barrel opposed to the 210 mm barrel of the Verminator. Thus having 300 meters / second vs. 240 meters / second.
So do you have any recommendations for a good, longer barrel?
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Re: Tuning a Gladi8or

Postby requoil on Fri Mar 05, 2010 11:08 am

If you have a 500mm already I would not bother fitting one 100m longer (The Chambers LW barrels are 605mm long) the gain would be small compared to other work on transfer ports, hammers, Springs etc.
While in the barrel the pcp pellet is generally accelerating until exit, the more barrel the more speed, gains would be achieved but they would not be great. Taking this into account, paying for the barrel, having it machined, and having it blued to an acceptable quality make it not a good option, I suggest you keep it as it is.
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Re: Tuning a Gladi8or

Postby Arktokosmos on Fri Mar 05, 2010 11:43 am

requoil wrote:If you have a 500mm already I would not bother fitting one 100m longer (The Chambers LW barrels are 605mm long) the gain would be small compared to other work on transfer ports, hammers, Springs etc.
While in the barrel the pcp pellet is generally accelerating until exit, the more barrel the more speed, gains would be achieved but they would not be great. Taking this into account, paying for the barrel, having it machined, and having it blued to an acceptable quality make it not a good option, I suggest you keep it as it is.


Thank you very much for your reply. I just talked to FX in Sweden to get some first hand information (it is nice to speak Swedish with them :lol: ). They were saying, that there are basically two ways of increasing perfomance on an FX Gladiator DA:

- By replacing hammer weight and piston and / or
- by exchanging the barrel (for a longer one)

They basically underlined the problem of .177 pellets getting unstable at supersonic speeds and said, that 300 m per second is basically quite the best compromise for a .177 rifle. So the factory settings are possibly the best.
Going up on higher velocities would mean that one has to use more heavier pellets in order to stabilise the pellet's trajectory.
However the person I spoke with was not too negative about the 605 mm version of the LW barrel. Actually he was saying that it would give the boost to the rifle that I was looking for. Fitting a longer barrel is - according to this person at FX - the easiest way, since one would have to loosen / tighten only two screws, exchanging the barrel and that is it.

Taking your thoughts into consideration is right as well: The gain would be approx. some 20 meters per second and a few Joules more, compared to the costs for processing the barrel and exchanging it etc. Question is, if that is really worth all the trouble. Guess I will have to spent the weekend taking into consideration all these factors. Maybe that is something more for my next X-Mas wishlist. :D
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Re: Tuning a Gladi8or

Postby requoil on Fri Mar 05, 2010 8:21 pm

You can increase the power but keep the pellets at sub sonic (quiet) levels by using a stronger hammer spring combined with a heavy weight pellet such as these 15.74 grain 177 pellets http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/H-N-RABBIT-MAGNUM ... 2a043f4589 not only can higher power levels be achieved without going super sonic, these pellets should be more stable than waisted pellets above Mach1 due to their bullet shape ogive. Heavy 177 pellets retain more of their start energy downrange than light weight pellets, but there is no point in retaining a greater residual power downrange unless you are still hitting the target, you must find what is accurate in your airgun. At the end of the day accuracy trumps power every time.

Are you shooting at paper targets or vermin?

Incidentally, keeping everything on your pcp the same, but changing the barrel, mag, and loading probe to 22 instead of your 177 will increase the power even though the velocity will drop.

p.s. I am not recommending the above brand of pellets, I have never tried them myself.
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